....may be found in this chat transcript.....
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Liisa Winklergirl says:
shall we tackle the gay issue concerning transsexual lovers today?
Antony says:
sure why not if ur bored
where do u stand on that issue?
Liisa Winklergirl says:
transsexual lovers are a species all their own
they are NOT gay
BUT THEY definitely are NOT STRAIGHT
look..there has to be SOMETHING DIFFERENT ABOUT YOU
if you want to caress, cavort with, lollipop, ride on or even just look at SHEMALE C**K
in the act of intercourse.....dont u agree with me ANTONY?
Antony says:
yea I agree its impossible to hang on to hetrosexuality when ur thinking of having a dick in you or even if the partner of choice has one
Liisa Winklergirl says:
many men who love TSgirls are afraid of being called or thought of as homosexuals...
and i dont know what the stigma is all about there but I love gay MEN too!! Gay men are handsome, cultured and very well-mannered...
and i would f**k a gay man too as long as he doesn't try to look as close to being a woman like me
LOL
Antony says:
however i agree that it cannot be gay, as by definition homosexual men are attracted to other men, and manly attributes
Liisa Winklergirl says:
which is why THEy are not gay too right?
Antony says:
yep
the only label which fits even a little is bi
Liisa Winklergirl says:
so men who love tsgirls are....remotely close to Bisexual?
Antony says:
yeah its the only publicy accepted label that can come close
as it really covers all bases
Liisa Winklergirl says:
let us not talk about dispelling the labels game...it will always be dragged into this conversation no matter what we say or not say...LET us PLAy the LABELS GAME
Antony says:
well even if we try to avoid it society and people in general love labels
everyone wants to be pigeonholed into a category
there is a fascination with it
i think for some ts lovers, it's because they want to belong somewhere, they don't wanna be outcast into a non existant box
thats why so many of them ask the whole "am I gay?" question as they want to be categorised
they want to know that they belong to some group
at least thats in my opinion
Liisa Winklergirl says:
so what you are saying is...many of guys who love TS do not want to be left out in the open or in a gray area or not type-casted (as it is the norm of the normal world)? which is why in an unconscious manner they are begging to be labelled too right?
Antony says:
yeah i think it's part of basic human nature
it's not a conscious thing, i think people just want to belong
Liisa Winklergirl says:
ahh belongingness needs....which is part of Maslow's hierarchy anyway...i don't see how it shouldn't apply to sexual preferences and deviations or the lack of these...
Antony says:
this of course is just my opinion, i could be utterly wrong, but it just makes sense to me
Liisa Winklergirl says:
it makes a lot of sense to me....this is a very good perspective and a pretty respectable one anyway...
Antony says:
whenever anything is discovered one of the first things we do is try to categorise it, why would it be any different for sexual behaviours
Liisa Winklergirl says:
very intelligent statement too...now
the question....possibly bisexual cannot describe a man who has chosen to just scr*w TS girls exclusively right?
bisexual is someone who f**ks men and girls...
Antony says:
i don't think it's as simple as that
by definition bisexuals are attracted to either sex
therefore they would easily find a ts girl attractive, as there are characteristics of both sexes
even if the man himself has no attraction to any other male features, he has to concede that ts women have one pretty damning male feature that they obviously like
personally I find the idea of sleeping with a man abhorrent, it does nothing for me at all, as I'm attracted to a female body
but at the same time i cannot deny that i do find c**k to be something which does appeal
Liisa Winklergirl says:
i think what I can derive from your statement is...we, Tsgirls, might as well be the OBJECT of every bisexual's dream....a man and a woman in one, don't you think so? I mean this is just a conclusion to your rather insightful statements above
Antony says:
it would appear that way, but again this is just going from the society accepted definitions
there are some guys whom cannot fall under that label as although they are attracted to ts women, they do not find themselves attracted to genetic females
in some parts of the world they have it right, by accepting TS women as a third sex
Liisa Winklergirl says:
i wonder how we are going to label...bisexual men who adore men and women but have a great disdain for TS girls....normal bisexual men?
Antony says:
nothing is as simple as black and white, we're all really varying shades of grey
some guys will adamantly claim that they're 100% straight, but they just like a lil bit of cock
which is an oxymoron
Liisa Winklergirl says:
haha it is an oxymoron haha i have to second that hahahaha ...even the men who don't want to touch c**k but like seeing TS c**k when theyre screwing them *Hint Hint DOUCHEBAG*
Antony says:
in an ideal world, it would be considered straight to be attracted to ts women, but that all falls apart as soon as they bottom for a girl
Liisa Winklergirl says:
they still like a lil bit of c**k...the sight of it hahahaha
Antony says:
from my experience ts women themselves only want straight men, which is fine as they are basically women, and it makes sense they'd want to be with straight men
Liisa Winklergirl says:
yes the ideal world however crumbles too when you begin to define it with the appendage or the lack of it between your legs hahaha
when you define sexuality that is
Antony says:
but by their very nature of who they are makes that almost impossible as any man that accepts them for who they are, becomes a fag in their world and therefore not suitable
it's a fine line
Liisa Winklergirl says:
somewhere in my career as a Psychology student we were introduced to scales of homosexuality etc
whatever...i have long since forgotten what that was....but i think the scale had one criteria which is incidence of homosexual acts among others..
forgotten it
so how GAY you are is defined by the incidences hahahaha
how screwed up is that?
and by saying that...how screwed up is the Psychological Society
but then again it has always been a gray area science...
Antony says:
i think we're all bisexual by default, but at the end of the day it shouldn't matter as long as your happy
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what do you think folks?
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nomenclature:
transsexual, ts, tsgirl - a person who strongly identifies with the opposite sex (in this case a man who identifies himself as WOMAN) and may seek to live as a member of this sex especially by undergoing surgery and hormone therapy to obtain the necessary physical appearance.
bisexual - a person possessing the tendency to direct sexual desire toward both sexes
homosexual - a person possessing the tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
c**k - male genitalia
12 comments:
This is quite an interesting topic, but I disagree with your conclusion. From my very limited experience I would say that MOST men that are attracted to TS girls are probably not bi sexual, nor are they gay, you may have to invent a new label.
If we define a bisexual man as being attracted to both men and women, the man that is attracted to girls and t-girls (but not attracted to men) does not fit that category.
Men that are exclusively attracted to T-girls (but not girls or men) do not fit the definition of Bi sexual either. Maybe it is possible that SOME men that are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to T-girls may be subconsciously attracted towards other men and for them a relationship, with a TS girl, may be a substitute because they do not want to admit they are gay.
Men that are attracted towards other men as well as girls and t-girls ARE bi sexual, or perhaps tri- sexual.
Men that are attracted towards both other men and t-girls, but not girls are probably not bi-sexual either.
I do not think you should consider the actual sex act and what the man will or will not do with the extra equipment of the t-girl when determining the man’s sexual orientation. Some men have told me that they will not perform oral sex on their female partners, that is their choice, but don’t label me a lesbian because I choose to do so. Then again, sometimes I do feel I may be a lesbian trapped in a man’s body hahaha. “An ugly masculine lesbian.” If a man anally penetrates his female partner, that does not make either of them “gay”. Basically, sex is just sex, if it feels good and both partners agree, do it. Even when two men in prison engage in sex it may not mean that they are sexually oriented towards other men, they just want sex and men are more available than women.
The bottom line is if a man looks at a group of people walking by on the street and only notices the feminine people, he is not gay. If a man looks at people walking by on the street and sees both men and women that he finds attractive he is probably bi sexual. If a man looks at the same people and only notices the men, he is gay.
To further stir up the debate, what sexual orientation label should be used for T-girls? Gay? Straight? Bi? Or something else? I would say a t-girl that is sexually attracted to men is straight.
Hi Liisa
The topic and this discussion shows that you are much more than a pretty face. You should show your intelligence more often it is much more becoming of you than foul language that you sometimes let others entice you to use. Those that want you to use foul language don’t want to help your image or your confidence.
Labeling others is only needed for those that are self-righteous bigots and hypocrites. For the rest of us it should be enough to just accept people for who they are. No labels are needed, other than our names.
If you want to label/define yourself then it should be only you that can or should do it and you should only do it for yourself or maybe a friend who is curious. Labels are just a substitute for having a conversation to get to know someone, usually in order to belittle someone or some group by others that want to get rid of them. I don’t believe in using labels, especially those made up by a group of people that just want to demonize some other group to get people to dislike them, just because they are different.
I enjoyed reading your and Anthony’s thoughts, I think it shows that thinking people have a hard time labeling others, when they really stop to think for themselves, one of the reasons that I don’t like using them.
Be Happy
Be Yourself
Have Fun
Best Wishes, Ben
some nice reading here...
I have dealt with this topic personally for many MANY years.
NEVER have i found men attractive. nor have i ever wanted to date a man in any sense of the word. BUT, i have had sex with men on multiple occasions. why? simply because i enjoy exploring ALL aspects of sex. I enjoy giving and recieving anal sex as well as blowjobs (for lac of better word).
My enounters with women FAR outnumber men. This is undoubtedly due to 3 factors: 1. men are inherently ugly to me... lol 2. women are insanely sexually attractive to me. 3. not enough tgrils in the world.
My personal expereince in this 'labeling' goes a bit deeper as i am also HIV poz. Not necssarily from my 'gay encounters'(though likely the cause)... more so because i lacked the discipline to follow the practices of 'safe sex'.
yes, a sad truth.
deep in the uderbelly of the HIV world there are supposedly hundreds of thousands of 'straight' men who are 'poz'.
wtf? are you serious?!?!?! I DON"T THINK SO. For a man to catch HIV from a woman is extremely difficult.. to say the least. i personally know many HIV couples where the woman is poz and man is negative. NEVER have i known the man to contract the disease... ever (and the majority of them do not practice safe sex). Many have had 'normal' sex and normal child births without passing HIV to either the man or child. Fact is the VAST majority of 'straight' HIV men are secretly either using 'intraveneous drugs with dirty needles' or 'exploring cock curious tendencies'. (note i did not say 'bi curious tendencies' as i agree it implies an inhereent attraction to men... with is not necessarily the case.)
labeling thigs does help us 'organize' life and define our experiences. Thankfully, the world is NOT black-and-white... thus, there are a limitless multiude of expereiences and differences. Though this may add to some of the chaos... it greatly adds to the many wonders/pleasures the world has to offer.
i could digress deeper... but don't want to bore anyone to tears.. LoL
it was a nice reading... both from Lisa/Anthony and the other posters. thanks for sharing all.
Blah blah.
Let's take a step back and look at how sexuality and love is and was considered in other countries and in the past. Then we can start talking.
My hint: We are, basically, all "bisexuals", i.e. if society doesn't control our way of thinking we would be just like other mammals, fucking either male or female.
What we love is a beautiful body. It can be male or female. TGirls lovers just make the first step toward admitting appreciating the male form and freeing himself from society's control.
Look at the David for god's sake! Was Michelangelo gay or not? The Greeks? Samurai: Often bi!
Let's continue this discussion based on historical facts or anthropological findings. Then we go somewhere.
It is amazing how liberating life is when you accepts who you are..and stop worrying about what anyone else thinks... The fact is that labels are conventions that often go way back in social history and in many case are irrelevant in today's culture. People need to categorize things, including other people, in order to make sense of the world...otherwise it is too overwhemling and confusing.
We all do it..including the lovely and erudite Liisa. But then we are only human...
wat a lot bull crap
I think the answer lies not in what anatomical parts one has, but rather the mental gender identification of the individual.
If liking penis is the determining factor for being gay, gay men would accept and love TG's, but they generally dont. They think of them as women and want little to do with them. They like other men.
A gay man still identifies as a male, so I dont think its odd for a TG to like them.
I think a straight male can like women of all types, no matter what parts are there. I enjoy my TG partners sexually as much as my GG partners but I do not consider myself gay. I am not interested in any penis attached to someone who identifies as male. Its gross!
I do think its odd that a TG identifies herself as male also, just because there is a penis.
Gender is so much more than a single physical part. Are TG's a third sex... I dont think so, they identify as women, usually since they can remember.
After reading the comments, I can say that I dont consider myself as gay. I have had a few succesful relationships with girls & I still fancy girls.. ive never fancied a man but Id be happy to have a relationship with a TG. as far as im concerned a TG is as much a girl as any of the other girls ive been with apart from one thing which, I'm happy either way about. It all comes down to initial attraction & how well you get on with each other.. I dont think you can really put a label on it.
thats my opinion anyway,
Josh..
I am pretty basic about this. If I find someone sexually attractive then that's what they are to me. I don't fancy Brad Pitt for example but I can understand why people do, thats personal taste. I do find someone like fashion expert Gok Wan quite sexy (oooooooh you gay old thing) but thats because I like good dress sense and humour in a companion. One of the reasons I have been chatting with the divine Ms W for some time is the intelligence and wit that comes through - looking like a goddess helps as well mind you!!!
I was reading through the article and I put myself in the situation where I would choose to be different from my current sexual agenda, and I am SO surprised that at the end of it, I realize that deep down inside, it's a very true feeling that as a man, I too would want to know what it feels like to touch, caress, lollipop, shake or whatever else another man's member.
Sure doing it yourself without another woman, or even with a woman's touch, it could give you the feeling of release, but I am sure you would agree that sometimes the release seems so controlled, so monotonous with a tinge of guilt, because there is some sub-conscious thought that there was no real reason for the release. And I admit, that it came as a revelation to me after a few quickies and hand-dates, there is something that lacks a certain understanding to it.
I really wish I could find out what this morose emptiness is, for sex is probably the 90% of work towards pleasure, but I am a firm believer of the 10% work that is aimed towards a mutual satisfaction, be it in a relationship, or a fling. To give meaning to why such an act seems so incomplete, even when it is done with a wife, or a lover, may probably be out of anyone's comprehension. It's so mind-boggling to think that another man, or TS could hold the answer to my dilemma, yet it's so refreshing to think that this experience could actually open myself to embracing my sexuality, to further enhance what I already have.
I am attracted but consider myself completely straight, and I'll tell you why. Most western men seek Asian women due to their more submissive nature. By this I do NOT mean slave, nor any negative connotation one might attach. I mean: one who understands it's a female's/wive's duty to take care of their man's needs on a regular basis. Unlike western women who unfairly use sex as a carrot on the preverbal stick. For I am not a leader or 'master' personality, yet I still crave regular 'feedings.'
Insert the transexual, and from my dealings with them, and you have the above on steroids. They seem to want to please their men even more. And before you respond (again) with 'you just want a slave' let me say: I'm just a REALLY nice guy, a pervert, and am tired of being used and abused for it. You treat a western woman like a queen, she'll kick you in the teeth. You treat a good Asian woman like a queen and she'll rightfully treat you like a king...a TS even more-so.
So...I don't crave everything about a TS. Not into man-parts, really, just a really good woman. I love anal sex (giving) and a good bj with an enthusiastic partner...all else is just doing what I need to do for the one I love whether I like it or not. I can love that they love it, I guess. So THAT is why I search for a good woman and also entertain the idea of the Asian TS. But that's just me.
I agree with the Anonymous person above, for the explanation prior to my comment as another Anonymous. The Feminine submission that this kindred free spirit of the "labelled" 'T-word' seeks, into the Masculine is what turns on any man.
Those saying, all women are inherent lesbian or all men are inherent faggots may have not narrowed it down further. On further observing this growing LGBT phenomenon and observing how the two people are falling for each other, from the perspective of a trans-oriented male seeking a transsexual, it is evident to me that this "devoted" fervor rather, not submission (as in BDSM sorts, bollocks to that) is the very essence of any man-woman relationship.
If two lesbians find that between them, great.
But without prejudice, if two humans are falling for each other, it simply means their behavioral conflicts do not trigger enough fight or flight mechanism so as to go to the depths of an unhealthy quarrel/separation/divorce. Like any healthy couple, they are, quite attracted to each other or willing to take care of each other(modern day "serve" each other. I prefer the archaic meaning here);
By the way, enough attraction and sexual playfulness, does not account for perversion. All of that is defined under the realm of love and is an extension of it.
yours truly,
Jesus.
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